Re: Gambas book

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Re: Gambas book

Benoît Minisini
On Sunday 11 September 2005 18:52, John W. Rittinghouse wrote:

> Hello Benoit,
>
> Yesterday, I asked Fabien to forward you the first 11 chapters of the
> book for you to read/use to work on the foreword.  I am going to need
> your draft of the foreword in about 2 weeks.  If you need help with it,
> let me know.  I am working on the Draw material this week.  Still have
> bit operations, database, and event/error management to finish.  The
> goal is to have this in to the publisher by 1 Oct 05.  It should be in
> print by mid November if we can make the deadline.  I did not send the
> file to you directly because it seems your mailbox cannot accept very
> large files - this one was 3.7 Meg.  Feel free to ask or comment on
> anything.  Thanks again for your help.
>
>
> kind regards,
>
> John Rittinghouse (jr)

Hi, John.

I post this mail to the mailing-list too, as the problem I expose concerns
everyone.

I quickly read your book, and I noticed you have copied many parts of the
online documentation, which may lead to problems.

As nothing is specified, the online documentation is not free (like a beer or
a speech). It is copyrighted by their respective authors, mainly me.

I think we should choose a free (speech) licence for the documentation.

Anyway, you can't copy it freely to write a proprietary book.

Can you see with your editor if the book could be free (speech) ? It would be
just a matter to make a PDF version of the book freely available on the
Internet, and to let us including the book inside the online documentation.

If the book must remain proprietary, you will have to rewrite the copied
parts, but it would be stupid :-(

As for the book contents, I think you should remove the 'GB' abbreviation, and
use 'Gambas' everywhere. It reminds me 'VB' and gives me buttons :-) Did you
plan to write a chapter about internationalization? And a chapter about the
future features of Gambas 2 ?

I will get your answer maybe Tuesday morning, or next week otherwise.

Regards,

--
Benoit Minisini
mailto:[hidden email]


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Re: Re: Gambas book

Rob Kudla
On Sat September 17 2005 14:00, Benoit Minisini wrote:
> I think we should choose a free (speech) licence for the
> documentation.
> Anyway, you can't copy it freely to write a proprietary book.

Yeah, I regret not changing the default TWiki notice "Copyright ©
1999-2003 by the contributing authors. All material on this
collaboration platform is the property of the contributing authors."
to read "Copyright $currentyear by the contributing authors.  All
material is available under a Creative Commons license
(Attribution-ShareAlike.)  Some rights reserved." before putting up
the wiki.  But it's too late for that now.  Maybe you could do it in
your code for the new.gambasdoc.org wiki.

My solution so far for my own book (which I intend to publish under a
Creative Commons license as well) has been to start creating my own
minimal Gambas documentation from scratch, but the development
version has changed so much in the last year that I'm essentially
starting over again.  And I don't feel it's too much to ask of the
authors of books on languages to write their own reference material;
authors of VB books have had to do that all along.  It's just tedious
work that could be better spent coming up with useful practical
example code and the like.

If anyone would like, I can assemble a list of contributors and which
pages they contributed to, so that people who want to seek their
permission to include their work in other documentation projects and
books can do so.  Maybe the dozen or so of us who have done the vast
majority of work on the documentation would all be willing to adopt
the Attribution-ShareAlike license for our work.

Along the same lines, I wonder if the designer of the Gambas mascot
(Fabien?) might be willing to offer it under a Creative Commons
license.  My writing is somewhat whimsical in tone and I hope to have
both Tux and the Gambas mascot on the cover.

Here is my own preferred Creative Commons license (very similar in
intent to the GPL):

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/

I prefer the Creative Commons guys' licenses because I'm also a
musician and sometimes write fiction, but for documentation they
themselves recommend the GNU FDL (basically the GPL for
documentation):

http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html

The FDL is more restrictive in that it requires you to have a
machine-readable version of your documentation available in a
non-proprietary format.  The terms of the license say that
machine-generated HTML may not be acceptable, and Wiki pages are
definitely machine-generated HTML, so I don't know whether we could
really use that.

Rob



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Re: Re: Gambas book

Garrett Hylltun
In reply to this post by Benoît Minisini
On Sat, 2005-09-17 at 20:00 +0200, Benoit Minisini wrote:
[snip]
> As for the book contents, I think you should remove the 'GB' abbreviation, and
[snip]

Also reminds me of the now defunct "Gnome Basic".

-Garrett



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Re: Gambas book

Steve Starr
So if we include this.

Copyright (c) 1999-2005 by the contributing authors. All material on
this collaboration platform is the property of the contributing
authors.

And make the what ever documentation project we create open source we
are free to use what ever resources in the gambas documentation with
out limitation besides what was mentiond above?

On 9/18/05, Garrett R. Hylltun <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, 2005-09-17 at 20:00 +0200, Benoit Minisini wrote:
> [snip]
> > As for the book contents, I think you should remove the 'GB' abbreviation,
> and
> [snip]
>
> Also reminds me of the now defunct "Gnome Basic".
>
> -Garrett
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
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> _______________________________________________
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>


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Re: Re: Gambas book

Rob Kudla
On Sun September 18 2005 00:20, Steve Starr wrote:
> So if we include this.
> Copyright (c) 1999-2005 by the contributing authors. All material
[...]
> And make the what ever documentation project we create open source
> we are free to use what ever resources in the gambas documentation
> with out limitation besides what was mentiond above?

I think that practically speaking, most or all of us who've
contributed to the documentation would have no problem with that, but
legally speaking, no, you couldn't do that right now.  There's no
license grant mentioned in the TWiki default copyright statement that
you copied and pasted above, and the default under copyright law is
"all rights reserved", meaning no copying allowed.  

So, that language needs to be changed before we go much further, while
we can still count all the major contributors on 2 hands.

Rob



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